The Puddcast hosted by Jonathan Puddle — Jonathan Puddle

Provocative, non-religious conversations about life, love and God.
Hosted by Jonathan Puddle and Tryphena Perumalla-Gagnon.

Text transcriptions are available for most episodes.
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#138: Relational Resilience for the Exhausted (with Heather Thompson Day)

#138: Relational Resilience for the Exhausted (with Heather Thompson Day)

Professor, author, speaker and all-around delightful person Heather Thompson Day is our guest on The Puddcast—something I’ve been hoping to make happen for 3 years. Dr. Heather is Associate Professor of Communication at Andrews University, and the author of 8 books; including her latest, I'll See You Tomorrow: Building Relational Resilience When You Want to Quit. Heather shared her perspective that all relationship is sacred, and that ministering the gospel is often as simple as reflecting people’s human dignity back to them. We reflected on living with delight and purpose, inside the mundane limits of our actual lives. Heather unpacked the myth of self-reliance and explained how not all relationships have to be strong, intimate ones to still have profound value and sacred impact. If you’re tired and have not much left to give right now, this one is for you.

Jonathan PuddleJune 27, 2023communication, boundaries, relationships, community, faithComment

#137: Creating suicide-safe churches (Steve Austin tribute)

#137: Creating suicide-safe churches (Steve Austin tribute)

Two years ago, my friend Steve Austin, an author, mental health advocate and former pastor, died by suicide. Ever since then, I’ve intended to dedicate an episode to his memory and his work, and this is that episode. Including a powerful interview with Lindsey Austin, Steve’s wife, along with a selection of readings from Steve’s book, Hiding In The Pews: Shining Light on Mental Illness in the Church, this is a vulnerable and sacred discussion that filled me with more hope and joy than I expected. I’ve lost count of the number of people who have reached out to me this Spring while hitting really dark patches in their mental health. Pastors, it is our job to help, but not always in the ways we expect or assume. This episode is for all of us, so we can learn to create suicide-safe spaces.

Jonathan PuddleMay 26, 2023suicide, mental health, therapy, pastoring, churchComment

#136-B: Reflecting on Aundi Kolber and self-compassionate survival

#136-B: Reflecting on Aundi Kolber and self-compassionate survival

Tryphena and I kept the mics rolling right after our interview with Aundi Kolber, and let me tell you… it’s a wild ride! We discussed the provocativeness of wholeness, including a physics lesson and a reflection on quantum physics… Why? Because presence is a powerful resource, and I have some theories about it. We talked about anger and injustice, we examined the time that Jesus had a panic attack, and we landed on rest and the safety of unproductivity. Strap in, it’s a wild ride.

Jonathan PuddleApril 12, 2023b-side, trauma, therapy, healing, wholeness, aundi kolberComment

#136: Flexible strength—compassionate survival (with Aundi Kolber)

#136: Flexible strength—compassionate survival (with Aundi Kolber)

Therapist (and my good friend) Aundi Kolber returns to the show to discuss her brand new book, Strong Like Water: Finding the Freedom, Safety, and Compassion to Move through Hard Things—and Experience True Flourishing. Our conversation revolves around reframing many things we’ve seen as weaknesses, even sins, as forms of strength that enabled us to survive hard things. We reflected on the particular shame we feel after having put in years of healing work in therapy, only to feel like we fall apart again. Aundi explained how resilience has been weaponized at times, and she honours the fact that we should never have had to be this strong. This is a powerful and intimate conversation that I think will bring real hope to you. Enjoy.

Jonathan PuddleMarch 17, 2023aundi kolber, trauma, healing, therapy, wholenessComment

#135-B: Unpacking Brad Jersak and the idol smashing of deconstruction

#135-B: Unpacking Brad Jersak and the idol smashing of deconstruction

Here’s a new Puddcast B-Side, unpacking idol smashing and how to create a welcoming, forgiving space as we deconstruct from toxic theology. My pastor, Amy Ryan, joined Tryphena and I to discuss our takeaways from Brad Jersak’s thoughts on the necessity, perils and possibilities of deconstruction, including how painful and confusing it can be for us in the midst of it. We examined our own parenting in light of power dynamics, and how each revival or movement in the church or culture persecutes the one that comes next. As usual, there’s loads in here.

Jonathan PuddleMarch 2, 2023b-side, deconstruction, brad jersak, parenting, cultureComment

#135: The necessity, perils and possibilities of deconstruction (with Brad Jersak)

#135: The necessity, perils and possibilities of deconstruction (with Brad Jersak)

The wonderfully wise and gentle Brad Jersak returns to the show, with a guest co-host! This special episode was recorded live when I was visiting Jonathan Martin recently, and we co-interviewed Brad about his latest book, Out of the Embers: Faith After the Great Deconstruction. We reflected on the historical precedence of faith deconstruction, observing that it is both a current move of God in our time as well as an ancient tradition of idol smashing. We discussed the harm we can do to others in our deconstruction journey, and how deconstruction can liberate from toxicity while also being incredibly painful and destabilizing. We talk about the importance of not replacing one form of fundamentalism with another, and moving from alienation to communion. Brad left us with a ton of practical tools on how you can connect with God and feel God’s love, right now, wherever and whoever you are.

Jonathan PuddleFebruary 15, 2023deconstruction, jonathan martin, brad jersakComment

#134-B: Exploring Dave Connis on laughter, silliness and work

#134-B: Exploring Dave Connis on laughter, silliness and work

Here’s the latest Puddcast B-Side, exploring themes of laughter and silliness and the value of everything, from our interview with Dave Connis. When Dave said, “Everything counts” something inside me exploded, or clarified, or whatever… it’s been big for me. Tryphena and I discuss finding joy in all things, redefining joy as a valuable part of serious work, and discerning what will and won’t bring joy. We riff on learning to see all the mundane aspects of our lives (especially as parents) not as surplus to the real work but as the real work, as much as our rest is also a valid part of the real work, because it’s all part of the whole life we’re living. We also touched on accepting our bodies, even as they age, and loads more as usual.

Jonathan PuddleFebruary 9, 2023b-side, work, rest, joy, parenting, lifeComment

#134: A theology of laughter and co-creation (with Dave Connis)

#134: A theology of laughter and co-creation (with Dave Connis)

Children’s and Young Adult author Dave Connis comes to The Puddcast to teach us the importance of laughter (and more). Dave’s hilarious and meaningful storybooks, The Inventions of God (and Eva), and The Stories of God (and Kiki) both captured our affection in a big way. We reflected on being intentional about the stories we tell our children and what we pass on to them; seeing ourselves within the continuum of generations before and after ourselves; how God invites all the parts of ourselves to co-creation; and more. If you’re a human being make sure to have a listen, and if you have kids, grandkids or nieces & nephews, make sure to grab his books from the links below.

Jonathan PuddleJanuary 20, 2023joy, parenting, god's love, creativity, art, humanity Comment

#133-B: Debriefing Lisa Sharon Harper on race, monarchy & forgiveness

#133-B: Debriefing Lisa Sharon Harper on race, monarchy & forgiveness

Just in time for Christmas comes a wild ride of a B-Side. Looking back at our interview with Lisa Sharon Harper, Tryphena and I reflected on themes of forgiveness and reparations, the gift of tongues as Indigenous celebration, how the monarcy dehumanizes people, the emotional impact on Europeans of that dehumanization, the myth of an American Christian nation and more. We were both deeply impacted by Lisa’s book Fortune and so we sounded off, big time.

Jonathan PuddleDecember 22, 2022b-side, race, colonialism, forgiveness, reparations, holy spiritComment

#133: How race broke the world (with Lisa Sharon Harper)

#133: How race broke the world (with Lisa Sharon Harper)

Acclaimed speaker, activist, playwright, and the author of several books, Lisa Sharon Harper is on The Puddcast! Recognized as one of the most important and powerful voices speaking to matters of justice and religion today, Lisa joined us to talk about her latest book Fortune: How Race Broke my Family and the World - and How to Repair it All. Blending fascinating ancestry research, family biography and memoir with a detailed history of race law in the United States, Fortune moved me profoundly. In this interview we discuss colonialism, radical re-connection to our stories and land; we explore shalom, confession, and the rehumanizing process of forgiveness. We talk about the lies of European supremacy and the greatness of pre-colonial African nations. There is some heavy content within, but it’s also full of hope and wisdom.

Jonathan PuddleDecember 7, 2022race, power, white supremacy, gospel, forgiveness, colonialism, reparationsComment

#132-B: Unpacking Katie Gaddini on single women leaving the church

#132-B: Unpacking Katie Gaddini on single women leaving the church

The B-Side is back! Katie Gaddini’s evocative book unveiling the factors that cause single women to feel alienated in the church triggered some THOUGHTS from both Tryphena and myself. Having both served in churches for many years, we each shared some of the ways we’ve seen “the ideal Christian woman” trope play out, why this and other things are so problematic, and what we want to see happen. We talked about a deep faith in Jesus bringing about a wide embrace of people, how we each need to be doing the work of growth and introspection, how marriage can be a framework of control, church NDAs and more!

Jonathan PuddleNovember 24, 2022women, church, pastoring, patriarchy, power, b-side, dignityComment

#132: Why single women are leaving the church (with Dr. Katie Gaddini)

#132: Why single women are leaving the church (with Dr. Katie Gaddini)

Sociologist and author Dr. Katie Gaddini joins us to talk about the factors forcing single evangelical women out of the church. Rather than a focus on faith deconstruction, we talked about power structures and cultural norms, such as “the ideal Christian woman,” how such stereotypes develop, and how they alienate people who don’t fit them. We touched on sexuality, purity culture, whiteness, patriarchy, affluence, wealth, and more in a quest to understand why the largest group currently leaving the church is women.

Jonathan PuddleNovember 11, 2022women, church, purity culture, spiritual abuse, pastoring, patriarchy, race, powerComment

#131: Men's devotionals are terrible (but Jesus isn't)

#131: Men's devotionals are terrible (but Jesus isn't)

To commemorate the launch (and the irony) of my latest book (a men’s Bible devotional), my friend Anthony McLean returns to host the show and interview me! We talked about men’s mental health, overworking ourselves, permitted male emotions, and purity culture… and then we riffed deep on original sin, brokenness and how to understand freedom and love in a beautiful wide open field of grace. This ended up being one of my most favourite conversations and I hope you’ll listen to the whole thing.

Jonathan PuddleOctober 13, 2022masculinity, sin, god, men, anthonymclean, mental healthComment

#130: The Soul of the Helper (with Dr. Holly Oxhandler)

#130: The Soul of the Helper (with Dr. Holly Oxhandler)

Professor, researcher and podcaster Dr. Holly Oxhandler is my guest, talking about the supports that helpers need to keep on helping. Whether we’re talking about parents, therapists, pastors, teachers or literally anyone else who helps, Holly’s research has shown the importance of seeing the divine inside ourselves so that we can connect with the divine in others. Her book, The Soul of the Helper: Seven Stages to Seeing the Sacred Within Yourself So You Can See It in Others, has been very impactful in my life and we unpacked her social work research, what she’s found, and why it works. This is gentle and vulnerable and practical, like all good Puddcasts should be. Get in!

Jonathan PuddleSeptember 16, 2022mental health, emotions, pride, namaste, faithComment

#129-B: Debriefing Jonathan Martin on the road away from God

#129-B: Debriefing Jonathan Martin on the road away from God

Time for another B-Side! Tryphena and I kept the mics rolling after we bid farewell to Jonathan Martin, and we leaned into his thoughts on God walking with us, even as we think we’re walking away. We riff on the divine power revealed in human agency, finding peace in the knowledge that God is present in everything, discerning the simple next steps in front of us, and walking life out in community.

Jonathan PuddleJuly 18, 2022b-side, deconstruction, jonathan martin, god's love, faith, hope, holy spirit, community, freedomComment

#129: Finding hope on the road away from God (with Jonathan Martin)

#129: Finding hope on the road away from God (with Jonathan Martin)

Pastor, writer and social leader Jonathan Martin returns to the show to explain how the journey that we’re each on is the journey we need to be on. Using the story of the disciples leaving Jerusalem on the road to Emmaus, Jonathan explains that even when we think we’re walking away from God, love finds us on the road. Tryphena and I ask him about the risky nature of doubt, of how granting freedom works as a pastor, and how to be honest about the harm done to us, while holding on to hope that perhaps healing is possible after all. It’s beautiful and raw and real, if you’ve felt at all disillusioned by God or church or the world in the last few years then I commend this to you wholeheartedly.

Jonathan PuddleJune 28, 2022deconstruction, god's love, faith, hope, holy spirit, suffering, life, community, jonathan martinComment

#128-B: Unpacking Kevin Sweeney on mystics + mushrooms

#128-B: Unpacking Kevin Sweeney on mystics + mushrooms

This here’s a B-Side, folks! As Tryphena and I walked back through our interview with Kevin Sweeney about mystics, mushrooms and the power of letting go, we found ourselves camped out discussing our value and worth when we’re not productive. Tryphena asks, if a flower shines with no one to see its beauty, is it still beautiful? We shared some dark night of the soul stories and challenged each other to live present, right here and now, in this cosmos, rather than escape.

Jonathan PuddleMay 17, 2022mystics, contemplative, god's love, trauma, b-side, significanceComment

#128: Mystics, mushrooms and the power of letting go (with Kevin Sweeney)

#128: Mystics, mushrooms and the power of letting go (with Kevin Sweeney)

Pastor, poet and mystic Kevin Sweeney comes to The Puddcast this month to share about his journey of encountering God while high on mushrooms. And that’s just the beginning! Starting this episode, we welcome Tryphena Perumalla-Gagnon as a co-host on the show. Tryphena and I had a blast with Kevin, exploring what it means to lean into the contemplative and mystical and find God present in the everyday moments of our lives. He explained the importance of transitioning from spiritual peaks to spiritual practices, and how the key to safety, identity and fulfilment really does lie in letting go of everything. We touched on a range of topics, including vulnerability, pastoral idealism, parenting, pursuing the Spirit without the expectations of others, and much more.

Jonathan PuddleMay 5, 2022mystics, contemplative, discipleship, god's love, drugs, pastoringComment

#127-B: Discussing Bridget Eileen Rivera on what gay Christians experience in church

#127-B: Discussing Bridget Eileen Rivera on what gay Christians experience in church

BONUS EPISODE! I’m away on vacation so instead of a fresh interview, Tryphena and I decided to share our B-Side from episode 127 (back in the days of episode 127 the B-Sides were exclusive to patrons only). Tryphena echoed the question of many listeners by asking why—after 3 years—I decided to publicly engage the topic of LGBTQ+ faith when I have been mostly silent on it. You’ll hear lots of my own story with my dad, and we talked about Bridget’s amazing poise and grace in carrying this heavy burden, for all our benefit. And more!

Jonathan PuddleApril 21, 2022b-side, lgbtq, sex, relationships, church, pastoringComment